Please find below the notes taken by the PH Ass at last Wednesday’s Forum. As each item was discussed twice (once in pre meeting, once in main meeting), these notes cover both. We don’t pretend that they are as accurate as the council’s minutes will be, nor as independent, but hopefully they will give licensed B&H owners and drivers an early indication of what was discussed in their names.
This was also the first meeting that representatives of the Afghan Taxi Association attended. The PH Association welcome them to the party, and wish them well for the future.
Reps at the meeting: PH Ass, United Taxi Group, GMB, Unite, Arab Taxi Forum, Afghan Taxi Ass, City Cabs, Radio Cabs, Streamline Taxis, Independent Hackney Drivers, NPTTU, British Gas, Sussex Police, Council Officers, Council Licensing Officers and Licensing Committee Chair.
1. Apologies
Apologies were received from the Disabled Federation and the Sudanese Taxi Forum.
2. Minutes from last meeting
Couple of words/phrases were changed in relation to the minutes of the Medical issue discussion.
3. Parking Enforcement
Despite accepting an invitation, and confirming through correspondence with the PH Ass, no-one from the council’s Parking Enforcement department could be bothered to turn up. What the PH Ass wanted to know was why that department has instigated a clamp down on drivers parked up whilst waiting for work. It would have also been helpful for the Hackney reps to ask details about the new enforcement camera which is going to be ticketing drivers blocking the top of Queen’s Road. Let’s hope we can get some answers at the next forum.
4. Southern Gas Networks
Rep from Southern Gas explained that Ditching Road is going to be blocked both ways between Warleigh and Upper Lewes Roads. It was also outlined that there is still plenty more work to be done to replace all the old gas pipes in the City, and the next phase will be concentrated on the Old Steine area.
5. Traffic Management, Ranks, Brighton Station, Amex
Concern was expressed at the blocking of Old Shoreham Road (Brighton) just by the bridge. This means drivers having to go around the houses to service customers going to the Hamilton Road area. There was a general consensus that the trade is basically ignored when all these closures are being initially considered, and the trade are only consulted when the decisions have already been made.
Following on from the above point, the trade, once again, expressed concern about the way the council seem to be picking away at all the important taxi ranks. Part of the problem is that the Highways department is staffed by different officials to the Licensing department. However that’s the council’s problem to solve, but until they are pushed hard enough by the hackney trade to do so, then it wont happen. Thus it wont happen !!!
Of course if the PH Ass changed it’s name to the Hackney Ass, then we would point out to the council exactly what the laws relating to taxi ranks are, not what the council think they are. Well actually we have, but as our point of concern has been successfully addressed by the council, we will take the council’s illegal policy of rank adopting/revoking/amending no further. We look forward to this issue of illegality being carried on by hackney reps. There’s enough of them now.
One interesting comment that came from one of the hackney reps was a new found law/rule which means that hackneys can’t pick up within 76 meters of a taxi rank (other than the rank itself of course). Maybe that law/rule was found beside the ‘moon is made out of cheese’ theory !!!
6. Sussex Police
Sussex Police confirmed they would fully support a taxi rank at, or very near, the Amex Stadium. The trade was advised that there would be another ‘March for England’ in April, and that could possibly cause road closures. The Police welcomed CCTV, and confirmed that it would reduce assaults, and help drivers and the police gain successful convictions against the scum that think the trade is an easy target (not the exact words of the police). Radio Cabs rep praised the police in the way they are dealing with some non payers, and confirmed that at least two non payers have gone to their offices to pay their taxi fares, in person, on the advice of the police. The point being that it’s better to have the driver paid than spending thousands on a court case.
7. Fares
As Dev was out of the country, and the fact that at present not everyone is convinced of the need to raise fares, this item was deferred to the next forum. For the record the PH Ass has reservations about increasing fares, but if the majority of drivers think they need one, then there would be no objections from us. Despite the fact that drivers have voted against an increase on two of the three circuits.
8. Vehicle Age Limits
The GMB have slightly amended their proposal, and have suggested a maximum hackney saloon age limit of ten years, with a maximum start limit of seven years. This was agreed by most of the forum, and a report will go to councillors requesting that change. The PH Ass asked why tens years and not just get rid of the age limit, but it was accepted by the hackney reps that the 10/7 year max proposal was the best all-round solution. It was also accepted by the forum that this proposal could have an effect on the fares formula (3%), but most present accepted this.
9. CRB’s
Other than all welcoming the revised CRB checking policy that will soon come out from government, nothing else was discussed, or for that matter needed discussing. The government have acted speedily to sort out a mess not of their making.
10. Medicals
Following on from the long discussion at the last forum, the council put forward a proposal that could lead to drivers (who have been suspended on medical grounds) getting back to work a lot quicker than at present. It was proposed that all the medicals are undertaken by the council’s own approved doctor. These medicals would cost approx £115.00.
Concern was expressed at the cost, and whether the doctor would be able to meet the demand of the 350-400 medicals undertaken every year. However these are still proposals and not set in stone. Maybe two or three doctors could be made available. The council’s doctor is due at the next forum, so maybe a little clarity, and progress, can come out of her attendance.
But we go back to the main concern of the trade, and that’s the delay to getting drivers back to work. And if all of us have to pay a few quid extra to ensure drivers get back driving weeks sooner than at present, then on a personal note bring it on.
Of course some drivers might need that extra £20 every five years.
11. Enforcement
Since the last forum the licensing officers have been out and about on many occasions, one particular shared (police/vosa/council) enforcement activity got an illegal minibus and stretch Limo towed away.
A trade rep requested information on a driver that failed a breath test, but as this matter hadn’t come before the courts yet the council declined to comment. Another rep complained that three WAV hackneys that should have remained WAVs were now saloons. The council explained that one was able to revert back to a saloon. One had been a saloon since the 1980s, and one had been relicensed by mistake. The one mistake will have to revert back when the vehicle is replaced. That would have been in seven years, but following the GMB’s proposal it will now be in ten years.
An interesting discussion then took place in relation to private hire operator’s licenses and their use. It appears that over the last few weeks the hackney carriage office has been swamped by enquires over PH ops licenses and the way some holders are using them.
The council gave their view that as long as PH ops license holders recorded their bookings before customers got into their vehicle, then no operating offence takes place. Same applies if a driver calls a booking into the office, providing the customer is out of the car prior to the booking being recorded or dispatched, then no operating offence takes place.
Now clearly this wasn’t greeted with universal glee, and no doubt another £30 a pop meeting could take place, but the law is the law. Of course ‘plying for hire’ is an illegal act, but that has nothing to do with operating procedure. For those that keep quoting a certain judgement, I suggest they read what the judge actually said.
12. Items for next Meeting
Most of the above (bar CRBs and Southern Gas), and a number of reps want to have a re-look at the Forum Constitution, in relation to membership, and the way the constitution is a little bit too rigid.
13. Dates of next meetings
4th April 2012
23rd May 2012
4th July 2012
The chap who has the thankless task of arranging the fare rise review, for the hackney carriage trade, has kindly circulated his draft proposals.
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Before the Licensing Committee on the 17th November 2011 will be a number of important taxi/PH items. If anyone wishes to discuss any of these items with the PH Ass please e-mail us, or contact Mark or Jeff via the usual channels.
